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@JohnnyEnzyme Yeah I was using a cliche term (but I see it so often where some people seem to want to do grand ‘performantive charity’ and then very quickly get angry and disillusioned when they don’t get the validation back for their efforts (which are quite grand to be fair) - To be clear that’s not all people.

I think people almost always mean well - and of course those public instances were needed to get things off the ground but I’m going to say that I’d rather see that they eventually die off as smaller servers become easier to run and people actually have personal connections with whoever runs the server they are using (ideally themselves)

I actually find legal structures like Trusts and Charities less than ideal. I know they exist for a reason and have a purpose but the structure of the relationship between the parties is weird - the giver of charity and the recipient - I prefer coops and mutual exchanges and engagements

@Steven_T_Baxter I don’t want to sound harsh … but as an example @elena - is actually doing the doing and getting into running her own server and learning how to make it sustainable. So are many people like mesamunefire@piefed.social

@Steven_T_Baxter A few comments.

1. AI - You are a writer - so write - don’t use AI it produces terrible results and makes you look bad (I know its tempting - a blank page is a hard thing to start from - but any illiterate person can use AI to produce slop.

2. The key point of permiculture is do to things yourself and try them out- and I’m still unclear if you have actually tried running an ActivityPub server (several commenters actually have

You are tangentally aluding to some valid points but also missing them totally.

My key point is as with plant permiculture - start small - run your own server for yourself -

Then your second point (is kind of right but completely zooms off on the wrong tanget) - don’t go for all those groups you suggest , invite your family or close friends or IT buddies that you already know (or have got to know via Activity Pub ) to join and get involved as a very small joint project - Don’t go further from there - Don’t offer public signups, don’t do merch, no micromerch store , online magazinges - they are all crazy ideas! - don’t even pay for a VPS - Do it on a RaspberryPi, old laptop at home - (Remember KISS) build some experience.

If you have two IT buddies then you are actually better running three ActivityPub servers between you and sharing ideas and experiences about running them - not trying to create one big one. (that’s monoculture in its defintion).

Your idea of engaging with groups only makes sense if they as a group have a need to use ActivityPub - actually for most groups the best way to start with them is to install ActivityPub plugin on their Wordpress website to create a ‘official’ account for their group on their domain - again not even offering group members their own account - because small is substainable and you should only grow as much as is sustained by what people are willing to put in.

Sustainability in ActivityPub is making servers so simple to set up that many people can do it themselves - not trying to build big centralised servers that requre funding and management and lots of interventions (that’s the reverse of permiculture

But again I say if you want to write about this - create your own server - with your own domain rather than using lemmy.world - and get some actual lived experience.

@Jayjader @wisdomchicken Yeah its weird I never thought I would find myself arguing against standards but when you think about it that’s what made the Internet so successful.

@poVoq @tofu @Steven_T_Baxter Just a question - Do you or have you ever run a fediverse server?

@wisdomchicken I first thought that this article seemed to suggest variety in the implementation of Federated protocols was a bad thing but actually its saying the opposite and supports the organic development of activitypub which i complely agree with. Variety, experminentation and dare I say it diversity are strenghts. Uniformity is boring and weak. It gives us choice, the opportunity to try things out without completely starting anew and has sonfar meant we have an amazing choice ofnservers, clients, features and options.

@tofu @Steven_T_Baxter I had a #friendica server running in a couple of hours. Thats still too long. Ideally would like to see home servers as about as difficult as setting up an alexa.

@troyunrau I would say in that most small instances its hosting … so practically thats using your internet connection, providing some hardware and electricity. Server rack? - Nah more like a #Dell micro or #bananapi like router sitting in the corner with an ssd and maybe a couple Tb of hdd inside it. When the user to server ratio is down in the under fifty : one range the hardware requirements are minimal. You can throw in email, Nextcloud and mediaserver while you are there.

In small instances the moderation load is basically zero (how many people in your family volunteer to moderate family/friend discussions IRL? The main thing is keeping an eye on what the kids are up to.

You got an issue with some content - block that person or server on your account/server and move on.

@mesamunefire Utimately i would like to see improvements in the activitypub protocol / server software to support much more dynamic federation allowing smaller instances to store less …and servers simple enought so host - plug and play in the home on your home router. The #BananaPiR4 isnt quite the right platform but its getting there. #Yunohost hasnt developed enpugh but its getting there. The time will come when everyone just runs their own server…

@Steven_T_Baxter I think fedivers sustainability is an important topic … but really i think the solution is lots of small instances run by /for groups of people who know each other

@tofu @Steven_T_Baxter Yeah honestly I found the comments more insightfull.

I do find the saviour complex of some people a bit frustrating. " I set up this instance for you - why arent you greatful and contribute?"

@Steven_T_Baxter So much to say here… Im a member of a sailing club thats run for 125 years.

Yes keep costs down - self host amoungst your users with a distrubuted solution and… really simply… if you want to survive you have to have a very clear and limited policy on freeloaders. As a group decide how much (if any) you are going to offer without contribution.

If you dont ask something of people in return its not a healthly relationship and you people will value what you do at the price you have put on it (zero) . They wont value the operation and will waste its resources.

@fuckwit_mcbumcrumble @AFKBRBChocolate Is this users on a lemmy instance or users on any type of activitypub server engaging with lemmy communities? ive stopped using my lemmy account because I just subscribed to those communities from my friendica account

@jonathan i sort of find the process of adding #hashtags part of my normal composition - as I mention a subject, place or thing etc. What if you could have the option.of viewing posts with the hashtags not displayed within the body but collected and displayed at the bottom? - #Friendica does the second part already in its webapp - perhaps this could.be an option for other UIs such as the native #Lemmy UI, the various flavours of #Racoon or the very good #Fedilab app.

@huppakee @SystemOfAnUp This is interesting as you point out one of the reasons that people use Credit Card Payment networks is the consumer protection that comes from credit contract legislation. That has a cost ( It costs the banks to provide the protection) which os recovered through the payment processing charges paid for by the merchant and I guess also offset by interest charges earned from the card user. But what if the card issuer could offer that protection independlty of the payment network and/or recover the cost some other way (either from the merchant or the card user)

@leraje Yeah I mean ideally it would be open source and self hostable - But lets not get into #PuritySpirals - Lets let a thousand flowers bloom.

@DarkSpectrum @LegoBrickOnFire Oh definintely - There is no way that any organisation is going to abandon everything for just ActivityPub right now. Thats what makes sociamedia management tools so critical to the wider adoption of ActivityPub. There are two main channels for content - Those tools and CMSs - More of both that support ActivityPub are required.

@leraje So the interesting thing straight away is that Fedica seems to allow me to register my Friendica server using the ‘Mastodon’ channel - I didn’t have so much luck with Buffer

@DarkSpectrum Ah sorry man. Hope it doesn’t look too bad - Its a while since I used Lemmy directly. Dangers of the fediverse eh?

@leraje Thanks - Didn’t know about Fedica. I’ll have to add it to the list of supported services (I really need to start a new website) - The freeplan acutally looks quite good.