Anon conflates the desire for a more involved and expanded social life with just having sex, thereby perfectly explaining their lack of a more involved and expanded social life.
That’s definitely a decent chunk of what people in the media who talk about the ‘male loneliness epidemic’ are talking about, though. I don’t think I’ve read a single article about it that doesn’t devote time to how little sex young men allegedly aren’t having.
Maybe he just wants to hang out with the boys and fuck! Didn’t think about that did ya?
Yea everyone knows as soon as you have sex once you never feel lonely again.
Seems like a lot of incels really believe it though
Indeed, which may actually be the source of their problems, or at least one of them.
Yeah when they fixate on sex it generally results in a bunch of behaviors and personality traits that make them unpleasant to be around and often make other people (particularly women) dislike or even fear the idea of sex with them.
I also honestly think a lot of it comes down to homophobia. I think there’s a lot of closeted or Kinsey 3+ bi men that are prevented from being happy with a male partner and even more importantly it keeps straight men from pursuing platonically fulfilling emotional intimacy from other men. I often deal with sexual transference behaviors out of male patients (when I try to help them emotionally they develop sexual attraction) and it can be difficult to both find a male staff member to model appropriate nonsexual emotional intimacy to them and to get the patient to accept the healthier experience / teaching.
TLDR there’s a lot of things I would like to do to help solve the male loneliness epidemic because it’s a very real thing but I’m AFAB and NB at best and 90% of the work needs to be done by men helping other men, so I’m functionally helpless to do so.
In my experience (as in my classmates(, you couldn’t be more right.
The irony is that there’s a chance it might be true.
Sex doesn’t necessarily mean very much. But, they’ve convinced themselves it’s massively important. Being a virgin defines them, and it’s proof that their life is a failure. If they can lose their virginity, they might be able to convince themselves that they’re now in a new category. If they can get away from the various toxic influences, maybe they can become more likeable people, and be less lonely as a result.
I mean… I’ve had sex and I never feel lonely.
Could also be because I’m severely introverted and probably autistic though…
This entire post is precisely the problem. The fact that everyone here is conflating sex with mental health support is the reason why men’s mental health isn’t being taken seriously.
Men are not socialized to, and even actively discouraged from being emotionally vulnerable with each other.
We won’t need men doing more fucking, we need men to sit down together and talk about their depression, and we need other men to be supportive and not downplay these conversations with sexist or homophobic slurs.
Exactly what I interpreted from this too. Posting a bunch of stats on sex and marriage as if they’re a remedy for loneliness ignores the fact that people absolutely can feel lonely while having both.
Men do absolutely need to be better with each other but women do perpetuate this also.
The modern concept of masculinity is completely broken. Long ago it used to be about being a protector, now it’s about anger, dominance, power, emotional dysregulation, resource hoarding (most of which provide little benefit to society at large).
A co-worker keept telling me he knows what’s wrong with me and that I just need to fuck. I so wanted to strangle him, because I’d imagine that would make you less focused.
Another keeps insisting I grab (a married co-worker) by the pussy.
Does your job not have an HR department or something? I’m fairly easygoing but encouraging sexual assault is over the line.
Literally does not. The closest to HR is the owner’s son.
those are co-workers though, everyone has stupid co-workers. It’s like that whole “you can’t choose your family” thing but corporatized.
The fact that everyone here is conflating sex with mental health support is the reason why men’s mental health isn’t being taken seriously.
The comments are taking the lead from the greentext that forms the basis for this post, and taking any greentext seriously is basically the original sin here.
we need men to sit down together and talk about their depression
I have a friend who hosts a men’s support group through his Brazilian Jujitsu Dojo. And I think the fact that this club exists is great for everyone involved. But holy shit is it depressing to visit a club full of guys who are just harping on their depression.
Like, we all need a time and a place to unload. But we do also need a time and a place to have some fun. The best thing for my depression, getting out of college, was hanging with people my age and doing social activities together. BBQs, dance halls, board game nights, house parties, concerts and clubs - all great for relaxing and socializing.
we need other men to be supportive and not downplay these conversations with sexist or homophobic slurs
Also nice when people can feel safe to joke and laugh with each other.
Yeah, totally! Getting my dick wet is precisely the kind of emotional and intellectual connection I’m missing! The penis is my data transfer cable.
The penis is my data transfer cable.
That could almost be a CAKE lyric
It could give new meaning to the phrase, “you’ve got male!”
[USB Connection sound]
Remember to safely unmount
You mean pull out just after the handshake packets get sent?
Maybe Avatar was onto something….
Well, crap… don’t have nearly enough hair for that…
TBF, they seem closely correlated. It seems unlikely (though not impossible) that you’ll find the emotional intimacy we expect from romantic relationships but won’t get any sex.
That’s if one assumes that the loneliness is caused solely by a lack of romantic connection, yes.
Personally, I’m lacking in the friendship and acceptance department as well, and sex most certainly isn’t a part of either of those.
Honestly the people that make me feel not lonely are not the ones I have sex with. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket; that’s how you end up in a codependent mess. Loneliness isn’t about romantic partners only, and friendships can be the most fulfilling things.
Strongly disagree. I’ve met far too many young men that see sex as a means to an often self serving end. Sex is a means of expressing love towards another person, it’s not meant for self gratification. Seeing it that way is a recipe to have a lot of meaningless sex only to be left wondering why you feel so empty.
Theres a reason women generally don’t climax from being jackhammered or even from clitoral stimualtion in many situations. They’re coded for that emotional connection as a prerequisite for good sex. We are coded that way too but modern culture has painted that type of vulnerability as “unmanly”.
In my view, a strong emotional connection creates the necessary conditions for good sex. But you don’t need good sex to have a strong emotional connection.
Men can end their loneliness epidemic by getting their priorities straight.
I never said that you can’t have sex without emotional intimacy. But the kind of emotional intimacy you get in a good romantic relationship is something that in our society your relatively unlikely to get outside of such a relationship, at least if you’re a man. Not impossible, and it should be more common, but right now it’s just not, especially for men.
This is such a toxic mentality. If you can’t get emotional intimacy in a romantic relationship without sex then you have problems you need to work on.
How does having sex once same as not being lonely? Sure I am lonely and virgin. But, I could just as easily be not virgin and still lonely AF.
Yea, I would imagine a 30-40 yo virgin may end up getting a sex worker. having sex with a sex worker doesn’t really reduce loneliness.
Some just gotta have sex before they can acknowlege that it might not be all their life is missing. Teenage hormones are so over-the-top, its a wonder so many of these men live long enough to voice their beliefs from the older age brackets.
- That is sex. You can have all the sex you want and still be lonely.
- Those stats are probably the “we asked some people” kind which means everyone who had their first relationship at 24 will say that “oh yeah technically i was with that random girl in grade school so you know what lets say its 12”
She went to a different school you wouldn’t know her
“premarital sex” also known as sex
yeah but it was a one night stand so you know it made them feel extra less lonely
Shit. I’ve had sex that made me feel even more alone than before.
(Had to figure out how to word that.)
With modern contraceptive technology we can have sex thats completely meaningless, where both parties are trying to achieve a deeper connection (to something, not even necessarily to each other) and misguidedly hope it can be achieved through a simple release. Its almost dystopian.
It doesn’t have to be meaningless. It’s perfectly meaningful to have innocent fun with somebody else.
Sure but I’d argue if both parties are going in openly with that intention that is a type of connection on its own.
“Male loneliness epidemic” is about male friendships more than anything no?
That’s definitely one sense, and the one that’s actually an issue. But I’ve read enough headlines and yt subject lines to pick up on there also being some muddying of the waters with romantic female companionship. Or rather lack thereof as being a key part of the crisis.
16.8? jesus.
I wanna see some breakdowns of these stats by country and socioeconomic factors
Yeah. Even if we assume that the average age was 1 or 2 years higher when I was that age, there’s no way that the numbers in my highschool class where anywhere close to that. Out of like 16 guys, I know of only a couple who even had a girlfriend while in school, which is probably more likely than casual sex at that age.
The number seems about right to me. Puberty starts at 12-ish, so does sexual exploration.
It’s not sex when your sexual exploration amounts to masturbating and ogling people, though. It’s possible that my classmates who had sex just didn’t tell me, but most of the ones I was actually friends with definitely didn’t have sex in highschool.
It’s possible that my classmates who had sex just didn’t tell me
we went to way different schools
It does sound pretty unlikely, but it’s not impossible.
It’s possible that my classmates who had sex just didn’t tell me
Usually it’s the exact opposite
Plenty could have relationships outside school that they didn’t talk much about.
I had my first sex at 16 and first relationships at 11, and my classmates weren’t even remotely aware of how rich of a romantic/sexual life I already had, or that I had it at all.
I wasn’t known as someone particularly likeable, either.
Imo sounds about right, people were getting mighty horny around that time and started having sex. Few years earlier even
I lost my v card at either 16 or 17, I forget which year exactly…
So yeah, 16.8 makes sense as an average.
Is it usually earlier in the US? Sounds a bit on the high side for where I live too.
>It's not just about getting laid (though that's part of it.) >It's also about friends >But even in the "getting laid" part, it's moreso about a real emotional connection in conjunction with the sex, I believe they're called "relationships." >while some is just incels, it's also normal people >If we had more Third Spaces that aren't centered around booze and money, it'd go a long way to helping the issue >it's not just men.The “while some is just incels” in your code comment part had me for a while, genuinely made me think of programming
There’s a difference between having had sex and not being lonely… If these idiots would stop equating being lonely to not getting laid there wouldn’t be so much resistance to the idea that there is a problem. Yeah, not being able to find someone to have sex with sucks but there’s a whole lot of other shit missing that comes before that. If your only problem is not getting laid you’re not lonely you’re horny.
They must have never heard of hookers.
If these idiots would stop equating being lonely to not getting laid there wouldn’t be so much resistance to the idea that there is a problem.
The problem is that the vast majority of the time whenever you logically breakdown the actual complaints being put forth by people supporting the idea of a “male loneliness epidemic” they usually boil down to “i deserve sex”, or some other misogynistic ideology centered around blaming others for their misanthropy.
Once you start asking questions like who is responsible for male loneliness? What’s the solution for male loneliness? Why are we specifying it as a gender specific epidemic? If there are so many men unified in loneliness, why not just befriend each other…?
Usually the answers themselves will just be accusations of misandry or just beligerence. And then if they actually engage with any kind of honesty or self reflection, you will usually get down to “I deserve female companionship”…but it’s totally not about sex. But also there’s a difference between female friends and having a girlfriend… But it’s totally not about sex.
It isn’t a male loneliness epidemic, it’s a loneliness epidemic. You’re never going to get satisfying answers to your questions if you accept the framing that it’s a male loneliness epidemic.
It’s a loneliness epidemic for everyone.
Focusing on the arguments of people who have no understanding of the topic and are just spreading toxicity is pointless; but pretending that there isn’t a loneliness epidemic because it’s used to power some incel memes is contributing to the apathy about this issue which is causing harm to both men and women.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
It isn’t a male loneliness epidemic, it’s a loneliness epidemic. You’re never going to get satisfying answers to your questions if you accept the framing that it’s a male loneliness epidemic.
My criticism was precisely aimed at people specifically claiming it to be a male loneliness epidemic…?
but pretending that there isn’t a loneliness epidemic because it’s used to power some incel memes is contributing to the apathy about this issue which is causing harm to both men and women.
I never claimed there wasn’t a loneliness epidemic, just that there isn’t a male loneliness epidemic.
What are stats on suicide rate for men? Or depression? Wouldn’t those be much better indicator than whether or not they had sex or marriage?
Depends if you are on 4chan of not
Lots of people have depression or suicidal thoughts while in relationships, too.
Those stats cannot be right.
They’re not.
A quick google search:
In Japan, roughly 50% of young adults aged 18-29 report being virgins.
In the UK, about 46% of people aged 16-24 identify as virgins
10% of US males under 34 are virgins. (Source)
EDIT: The OP seems to be citing data from at least 15 years ago. But that’s precisely the problem: the world seems to have changed in that time. We have 3 times the number of virgins across age groups in just a few years, for instance.
That is not how source work. Without citation you are just claiming that it is a different number. This is in no way better than what you are disputing.
It’s from this site which seems to aggregate different sources.
I dont know what it’s worth.edit: typo
It made me feel better so it’s real now.
18-29
That’s hell of a range here. You can be 19 when you’ve been asked the question and lose your virginity next year.
He could not be in america.
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Just to be clear, there is a loneliness epidemic: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
In the scientific literature, I found confirmation of what I was hearing. In recent years, about one-in-two adults in America reported experiencing loneliness. And that was before the COVID-19 pandemic cut off so many of us from friends, loved ones, and support systems, exacerbating loneliness and isolation.
Loneliness is far more than just a bad feeling—it harms both individual and societal health. It is associated with a greater risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety, and premature death. The mortality impact of being socially disconnected is similar to that caused by smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day,4 and even greater than that associated with obesity and physical inactivity. And the harmful consequences of a society that lacks social connection can be felt in our schools, workplaces, and civic organizations, where performance, productivity, and engagement are diminished.
Dunking on incels who equate loneliness with a lack of sex and ascribing the “male loneliness epidemic” to being a meme made up by chronically online social media users is a mistake.
Everyone is experiencing loneliness.
Just because women suffer in silence while some men turn to antisocial behavior doesn’t mean that this is a problem that’s fabricated or only affecting men.
If you’re resistant to believing that this is a real problem because the people making noise about it on social media are primarily men then you’re ignoring reality.
